Legislature(2019 - 2020)ADAMS ROOM 519

04/18/2019 09:00 AM House FINANCE

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Audio Topic
09:00:07 AM Start
09:01:27 AM Presentation: Criminal Justice Review: the Story of Offender Joe
12:34:31 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Presentation: Criminal Justice Reform Update TELECONFERENCED
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                      April 18, 2019                                                                                            
                         9:00 a.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:00:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  called the House Finance  Committee meeting                                                                    
to order at 9:00 a.m.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Neal Foster, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Tammie Wilson, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Jennifer Johnston, Vice-Chair                                                                                    
Representative Dan Ortiz, Vice-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Ben Carpenter                                                                                                    
Representative Andy Josephson                                                                                                   
Representative Gary Knopp                                                                                                       
Representative Bart LeBon                                                                                                       
Representative Kelly Merrick                                                                                                    
Representative Colleen Sullivan-Leonard                                                                                         
Representative Cathy Tilton                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Nancy  Meade,  General  Counsel, Alaska  Court  System;  Jen                                                                    
Winkleman,   Director,  Probation,   Parole,  and   Pretrial                                                                    
Division,  Department of  Corrections;  Kelly Goode,  Deputy                                                                    
Commissioner,  Department  of   Corrections;  Kelly  Howell,                                                                    
Special Assistant, Department of Public Safety.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
John  Skidmore, Director,  Criminal Division,  Department of                                                                    
Law                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
PRESENTATION:   CRIMINAL  JUSTICE   REVIEW:  THE   STORY  OF                                                                    
OFFENDER JOE                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Wilson  reviewed the  meeting agenda.  She detailed                                                                    
that the committee would review  the criminal justice system                                                                    
since the passage  of SB 91 - OMNIBUS CRIM  LAW & PROCEDURE;                                                                    
CORRECTIONS [CHAPTER 36 SLA 16 - 07/11/2016].                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
^PRESENTATION:  CRIMINAL   JUSTICE  REVIEW:  THE   STORY  OF                                                                  
OFFENDER JOE                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:01:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
NANCY   MEADEE,  GENERAL   COUNSEL,  ALASKA   COURT  SYSTEM,                                                                    
presented  a neutral  explanation of  the recent  changes to                                                                    
Alaska's criminal  law with the  implementation of SB  91 in                                                                    
2016  and  issues that  transpired  since  its passage.  She                                                                    
detailed  that   the  approximately  110  pages   in  SB  91                                                                    
addressed substantial  amounts of complex criminal  law. She                                                                    
provided  a brief  overview of  her presentation.  She would                                                                    
review  the   major  categories  in  the   following  order:                                                                    
pretrial, sentencing, controlled  substances, probation, and                                                                    
parole.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:03:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Meade listed  the other  major provisions  contained in                                                                    
the bill that  she would only address  upon request relating                                                                    
to:  driving with  a suspended  license, failure  to appear,                                                                    
suspended  entry  of  judgement, revisions  to  the  Alcohol                                                                    
Safety   Action   Program    (ASAP),   victims   access   to                                                                    
information, first offense sentencing  for Driving Under the                                                                    
Influence  (DUI), limited  licenses for  felony DUIs,  theft                                                                    
threshold  between felonies  and misdemeanors,  reinvestment                                                                    
in   Community  Residential   Centers   (CRC),  and   crimes                                                                    
downgraded to violations.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  relayed that  the items  that would  not be                                                                    
heard during the meeting would be heard the following week.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Carpenter    asked   if    the   PowerPoint                                                                    
presentation  was  Ms. Meade's.  Ms.  Meade  replied in  the                                                                    
negative. She did not have a PowerPoint.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Meade   clarified  that   the  Court   System  remained                                                                    
completely  neutral  on  any   past  or  future  changes  to                                                                    
criminal  laws. She  began with  pretrial changes  that were                                                                    
implemented  in  SB 91  in  2016.  She elucidated  that  the                                                                    
provisions in  SB 91  were phased-in.  Most of  the pretrial                                                                    
provisions  had  a  delayed  effective  date  of  2018.  The                                                                    
Pretrial  Enforcement Division  (PED) created  in SB  91 had                                                                    
currently only been  intact for a little over  one year. She                                                                    
reported  that the  first pretrial  revision related  to the                                                                    
"time  for  first  appearance" between  a  defendant  and  a                                                                    
judicial  officer after  arrest was  changed from  48 to  24                                                                    
hours. She  elaborated that the provision  had little effect                                                                    
on  many  court  system  procedures because  the  court  had                                                                    
routinely scheduled  first appearance or  arraignment within                                                                    
24 hours. The statute previously  allowed a felon to be held                                                                    
for  48 hours  to allow  prosecutors time  to prepare  for a                                                                    
bail hearing. The amount of time  had been a subject of much                                                                    
discussion  and the  bill excluded  many  Class C  felonies,                                                                    
since  many  Class C  felonies'  penalties  did not  include                                                                    
incarceration. Subsequently, the  time provision was revised                                                                    
in SB 54  - Crimes; Sentencing; Probation; Parole [Chapter 1                                                                  
4SSLA  17 -  11/26/2017], which  expanded the  circumstances                                                                    
when   the   48  hour   time   period   could  be   granted.                                                                    
Subsequently,  the  time  for  first  appearance  was  fully                                                                    
reversed   in  HB   312   -   Crimes/Crim  Pro;   Controlled                                                                    
Substances;  Bail [CHAPTER  22 SLA  18 -  06/14/2018], which                                                                    
was  expanded to  any felony  or misdemeanor  defendant with                                                                    
out   of  state   convictions.  She   added  that   district                                                                    
attorney's (DA) rarely request the 48 hour time period.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:08:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson asked how difficult  it was to find out- of-                                                                    
state  convictions. She  asked  whether it  depended on  the                                                                    
state. Ms.  Meade replied that  finding the  information was                                                                    
under the purview  of the Department of Law  (DOL), that had                                                                    
access  to  data  bases.  She   noted  that  the  issue  was                                                                    
discussed  during   bail  hearings.  She   deferred  further                                                                    
questioning to the department.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  SKIDMORE, DIRECTOR,  CRIMINAL DIVISION,  DEPARTMENT OF                                                                    
LAW  (via teleconference),  replied that  the Alaska  Public                                                                    
Safety  Information   Network  (APSIN)  database   was  also                                                                    
connected  to  an  FBI database  that  provided  information                                                                    
about out-of-state  convictions. He noted that  the database                                                                    
was  unclear about  whether a  conviction had  occurred, and                                                                    
the  department  attempted  to contact  law  enforcement  in                                                                    
other  states to  confirm information  in  the database.  He                                                                    
indicated that  the database was not  comprehensive and only                                                                    
included criminal  history that was  reported to the  FBI by                                                                    
another state.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:10:28 AM                                                                                                                    
Ms. Meade addressed a defendants  first appearance in court.                                                                    
She expounded that the primary  change stemmed from the fact                                                                    
that  SB  91  established   a  new  division,  the  Pretrial                                                                    
Enforcement    Division   (PED)(previously    the   Pretrial                                                                    
Enforcement  Section) within  the Department  of Corrections                                                                    
(DOC) to  deal with pretrial.  The division's two  main jobs                                                                    
described in AS  33.07 were to perform  risk assessments and                                                                    
exercise supervisory functions  over defendants in pretrial.                                                                    
She explained  that risk assessment  was required  within 24                                                                    
hours  of arrest  and determined  the  assessment score  and                                                                    
categorization  that  the  PED officer  transmitted  to  the                                                                    
court.  She  related that  a  substantial  effort went  into                                                                    
creating  the risk  assessment "tool"  (referred to  as "the                                                                    
tool") that  determined whether  the defendant  would appear                                                                    
for  court hearings  and/or  if a  threat  to public  safety                                                                    
existed; considered  a risk for  "new criminal  arrest." She                                                                    
explained that  the defendant received two  scores: the risk                                                                    
of  failure to  appear  and the  new  criminal arrest  (NCA)                                                                    
scores.  The test  employed the  rankings low,  moderate, or                                                                    
high  risk. The  court  received the  rankings  at the  bail                                                                    
hearing in an electronic  report that listed an out-of-state                                                                    
history,   if   applicable,   and  a   list   of   statutory                                                                    
recommendations that  pretrial believed was  appropriate for                                                                    
the offender.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:14:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meade  continued that  the court  applied the  report to                                                                    
the bail  statute; AS 12.30.011,  which delineated  what the                                                                    
ramifications were  according to the score.  She interjected                                                                    
that due  to the  complexity of  the statute,  many judicial                                                                    
officers  developed  a  "matrix"  to  decipher  the  statute                                                                    
according to  a charge  and ranking. The  categories created                                                                    
some controversy  and opposition when  SB 91 had  passed due                                                                    
to some charges and  rankings requiring mandatory "allowable                                                                    
release  on   own  recognizance"  (OR).  She   relayed  that                                                                    
mandatory  OR was  authorized for  misdemeanors  or Class  C                                                                    
felonies related  to drugs, theft, and  weapons charges that                                                                    
were  not a  crime  against a  person,  related to  domestic                                                                    
violence (DV), a  sex crime, or DUI, and assessed  at low or                                                                    
moderate.  The  rest  of  the  categories  in  statute  were                                                                    
presumed unless  clear and convincing evidence  existed that                                                                    
bail or  jail was necessary  for public safety or  to assure                                                                    
appearance in  court. Other unclassified  categories carried                                                                    
no  assumptions and  the court  determined the  outcome upon                                                                    
the preponderance of evidence.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  remembered  that the  pretrial  assessment                                                                    
statute in  SB 91 had  subsequently been changed.  Ms. Meade                                                                    
answered in the affirmative.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  referred to  "the tool"  and asked                                                                    
who applied  the tool and  determined the scores.  Ms. Meade                                                                    
replied that the  risk assessment was determined  by the PED                                                                    
officers under DOC.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter repeated his question.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JEN  WINKLEMAN, DIRECTOR,  PROBATION,  PAROLE, AND  PRETRIAL                                                                    
DIVISION,  DEPARTMENT  OF  CORRECTIONS,  answered  that  the                                                                    
pretrial  services officers  conducted the  assessment prior                                                                    
to the  defendant's arraignment. The department  referred to                                                                    
the risks as the "Alaska  two scales;" failure to appear and                                                                    
new criminal activity.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:19:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Sullivan-Leonard  referred  to the  list  of                                                                    
crimes under  the Class  C felons released  on OR  and asked                                                                    
for a  reiteration of  the list.  Ms. Meade  emphasized that                                                                    
the list under SB 91 was  no longer the law and subsequently                                                                    
changed.  She reiterated  that mandatory  OR had  applied to                                                                    
all  Class C  felonies  except for  crimes against  persons,                                                                    
failure  to appear,  violating conditions  of release,  DUI,                                                                    
refusals, sex crimes, and DV crimes.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  asked whether the  AS.11.61 (1161)                                                                    
crimes  had been  treated less  severely than  other violent                                                                    
crimes in SB 91.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  advised   caution  during  the  discussion                                                                    
regarding  SB  91.  She  wanted   to  engage  in  a  neutral                                                                    
examination  of  the  effects and  focus  on  the  remaining                                                                    
current law and what had been changed.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Meade  answered that  she  was  not certain  about  the                                                                    
conduct  related  to  weapons Representative  Josephson  was                                                                    
referencing.  Representative  Josephson recounted  that  the                                                                    
Court System had promulgated a  new bail schedule in advance                                                                    
of  SB  91.  He  inquired   whether  the  new  schedule  was                                                                    
implemented in anticipation  of the bill or  would have been                                                                    
revised regardless.  Ms. Meade  answered that  the presiding                                                                    
judge had revised the bail  schedule in 2016, which had been                                                                    
changed three  or four times  since then. She  believed that                                                                    
the  bail  schedule  was  changed  in  order  to  develop  a                                                                    
statewide unified bail schedule.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  asked  how the  bail  schedule  fit  under                                                                    
pretrial.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:23:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meade answered  that the bail schedule  was not affected                                                                    
by  the  pretrial  changes.  She  explained  that  the  bail                                                                    
schedule applied  to certain  misdemeanors that  allowed for                                                                    
release  via  bail   at  the  jail  or   for  certain  other                                                                    
misdemeanors with a  set of established bail or  OR that did                                                                    
not relate to domestic  violence or stalking. However, other                                                                    
misdemeanors  were not  subject  to release  under the  bail                                                                    
schedule.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  asked for verification that  the previously                                                                    
mentioned  misdemeanors   were  not  included   in  pretrial                                                                    
statistics  because  the  defendant was  released  prior  to                                                                    
pretrial.  Ms.   Meade  replied  in  the   affirmative.  She                                                                    
elaborated that  SB 54  - CRIMES;SENTENCING;PROBATION;PAROLE                                                                    
[CHAPTER 1  4SSLA 17 -  11/26/2017] clarified  that pretrial                                                                    
assessment did  not apply to  out of custody  defendants who                                                                    
would  be arraigned  later. Co-Chair  Wilson asked  how many                                                                    
individuals  fell  into  the   out  of  custody  defendant's                                                                    
category.  Ms. Meade  answered that  the number  was unknown                                                                    
due  to  the  difficulty  of finding  the  data  related  to                                                                    
misdemeanants released under the bail schedule.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  asked for a  summary of the  arguments for                                                                    
the development of  the risk assessment tool  and the issues                                                                    
that caused a change in risk assessment.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:26:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Meade  answered  that  many  jurisdictions  around  the                                                                    
country had  been looking  at "smart  justice:" a  reform of                                                                    
the criminal justice system with  an emphasis on recidivism.                                                                    
She  explained that  social scientists  had determined  that                                                                    
one improvement  was to grant  the judge more  discretion in                                                                    
the  pretrial process  by providing  more information  via a                                                                    
risk  assessment tool.  She explained  that  SB 91  mandated                                                                    
that  DOC  would  create  the   tool.  The  department  took                                                                    
advantage  of free  outside expertise  provided by  specific                                                                    
organizations. The  experts gathered  data from  Alaska case                                                                    
files from DOC,  the Department of Public  Safety (DPS), and                                                                    
Judiciary and evaluated  offenders' propensity to recidivate                                                                    
and developed  the tool  specific to  Alaska from  the data.                                                                    
The tool had  not changed since implementation,  but some of                                                                    
the  public outcry  concerned mandatory  OR for  crimes like                                                                    
vehicle theft (Class C felony).  She offered that HB 312 was                                                                    
in  response  to  mandatory OR  and  the  mandatory  release                                                                    
provisions were removed  under the bill. She  added that all                                                                    
the mandatory  OR categories were changed  to presumption of                                                                    
OR  unless clear  and  convincing  evidence that  conditions                                                                    
were  necessary to  protect public  safety and  ensure court                                                                    
appearances.  The provisions  were effective  in June  2018.                                                                    
She  mentioned  that the  OR  provisions  under SB  91  were                                                                    
quickly adjusted by the legislature  and were only in effect                                                                    
from January 1, 2018 through June 15, 2018.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:30:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  asked about the  OR adjustments  that came                                                                    
about as  a result of  concerns. He  asked whether it  was a                                                                    
matter  of perception  that the  law "was  a bad  thing." He                                                                    
surmised  that  not  enough time  had  passed  to  determine                                                                    
whether  data   backed  up  the  concerns.   Ms.  Meade  was                                                                    
uncertain why the  legislature made the rapid  change to the                                                                    
law. She  pointed to  a couple of  high profile  cases where                                                                    
defendants  had   been  released  OR  and   the  legislature                                                                    
determined that  mandatory release  was not  appropriate and                                                                    
"general" opposition by some members of the public.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  asked if a  risk tool had  already existed.                                                                    
Ms. Meade answered that the  risk tool had been invented for                                                                    
Alaska based on  Alaska data. The state could  have used off                                                                    
the shelf  tools or tools  from other states. The  risk tool                                                                    
was  validated  upon Alaskan  populations  to  try to  avoid                                                                    
cultural disparities.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter  declared  that  judges  had  been                                                                    
placed in  their position  to discern  and seek  justice. He                                                                    
asked  how the  PED  officers were  making  the decision  to                                                                    
discern  the two  risks measured  by the  tool. He  believed                                                                    
that  the tool  was  "tying the  judges   hands through  the                                                                    
matrix. Ms. Meade  responded that the tool did  not call for                                                                    
any  discretionary  decision  making by  the  officers.  She                                                                    
exemplified one  question that  asked whether  the defendant                                                                    
had  any arrests  prior to  the age  of 21  and if  the data                                                                    
indicated  a  positive  answer, points  were  added  to  the                                                                    
score.  Representative  Carpenter  asked  if  the  tool  was                                                                    
solely data based. Ms. Meade replied in the affirmative.                                                                        
Representative Josephson asked what  the presumption for  OR                                                                    
release had been  prior to SB 91. Ms. Meade  replied that AS                                                                    
12.30.011(a) provided  for OR  but subsection  (b) specified                                                                    
that if more was needed  to protect public safety and ensure                                                                    
court appearances  the court could  impose monetary  bail or                                                                    
other   conditions.  The   clear  and   convincing  evidence                                                                    
standards were not included.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:35:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston wondered whether  the state continued to                                                                    
use the  tool even  though major revision  were made  to the                                                                    
law limiting  mandatory release. Ms. Meade  answered that SB
91 mandated use of the tool  for everyone in custody. HB 312                                                                    
did not  change that requirement but  altered the conditions                                                                    
regarding  mandatory  releases.   She  was  concerned  about                                                                    
continued data  collection. She asked for  verification that                                                                    
data continued to be collected.  Ms. Meade indicated that SB
91 mandated  that the  Criminal Justice  Commission, staffed                                                                    
by  the Judicial  Council, collect  data on  all aspects  of                                                                    
criminal justice  reforms in SB  91. Since the law  had been                                                                    
in effect  for 1.3 years  some data had been  collected, but                                                                    
not  enough  to  form  a   full  picture  to  determine  its                                                                    
effectiveness.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson   cited  that   currently  45   percent  of                                                                    
criminals were  unsentenced and asked who  would not qualify                                                                    
for pretrial.  Ms. Meade replied that  some defendants could                                                                    
not  meet  the  conditions  of release  or  make  bail.  She                                                                    
reminded  Co-Chair  Wilson  if  there was  a  presumption  a                                                                    
person would be released OR,  a judge could make a different                                                                    
determination   to  keep   the  individual   in  jail.   The                                                                    
determination could  be made  for any charge  if the   judge                                                                    
made the finding.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  thought  that  pretrial  assessment  would                                                                    
determine  who was  at high  risk of  causing harm  and that                                                                    
non-violent  more minor  defendants  would  not be  assessed                                                                    
solely based  on ability to  pay bail. She believed  that 45                                                                    
percent  represented   a  huge  number  of   individuals  in                                                                    
pretrial.  She  wondered  how  most of  the  45  percent  of                                                                    
incarcerated pretrial  defendants would be  categorized. Ms.                                                                    
Meade agreed  that the goal  of smart justice was  to better                                                                    
identify people who  needed to be in jail  versus others who                                                                    
did not  present a  threat to  the public  and incarceration                                                                    
was unnecessary.  She deduced that  in general,  if assessed                                                                    
correctly,  the more  violent individuals  with higher  risk                                                                    
scores would be  detained in jail and  those representing no                                                                    
threat to the  public would be released  OR. Co-Chair Wilson                                                                    
asked whether  the individuals in pretrial  could be imposed                                                                    
conditions of supervision or ankle monitoring.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:41:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meade  answered that  the Pretrial  Enforcement Division                                                                    
also had authority to  supervise individuals released during                                                                    
pretrial. She provided the example  that a judge could order                                                                    
pretrial release  on the condition  of drug  treatment under                                                                    
the oversight of PED officers.  She reported that the judge,                                                                    
under the  new bail statute  in SB  91 were able  to release                                                                    
many  more individuals  without  monetary bail  requirements                                                                    
but placed  conditions to  ensure the  individual was  not a                                                                    
threat to the community.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson asked  if the  individuals received  credit                                                                    
for  pretrial  time served.  Ms.  Meade  answered that  they                                                                    
could  receive credit  only on  electronic monitoring  (EM).                                                                    
Co-Chair Wilson asked whether  the defendant received credit                                                                    
for time  served under conditions of  supervision. Ms. Meade                                                                    
answered in the  negative. She detailed that  a person would                                                                    
accumulate credit  for pretrial  time served  if constraints                                                                    
were in place.  A person could get pretrial  credit for time                                                                    
spent on  EM under imposed  conditions or for time  spent in                                                                    
certain treatment facilities.  Co-Chair Wilson surmised that                                                                    
a person could also be on  EM but would not get time served.                                                                    
Ms. Meade answered in the affirmative.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:45:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson thought that there  was a misperception that                                                                    
individuals all received  time served on EM  and was unaware                                                                    
of the parameters placed on gaining time served.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  guessed  that  more  people  were                                                                    
currently  being released  under OR  conditions because  the                                                                    
standard was still  higher than what it was prior  to SB 91.                                                                    
Ms. Meade  understood the  assumption but  did not  have the                                                                    
data  to support  his  hypothesis. Representative  Josephson                                                                    
asked why the data did not  exist. Ms. Meade replied that no                                                                    
entity was  set up to  be a central data  collection entity.                                                                    
The  Court  System's case  management  system  had not  been                                                                    
designed to  draw conclusions. She  added that  the Judicial                                                                    
Council was trying hard to  get the data by piecing together                                                                    
any    relative   data    from   all    involved   agencies.                                                                    
Representative Josephson  surmised that if more  people were                                                                    
released there would be fewer  plea bargains and potentially                                                                    
more trials, which could impact  Judiciary. He recalled from                                                                    
personal experience  as an  attorney that  often individuals                                                                    
opted for plea  bargains because they could  not afford jail                                                                    
regardless of  innocence or guilt. He  pondered how criminal                                                                    
justice reform  "played out" in  the real world in  terms of                                                                    
cost to agencies, case work, and "overall" justice.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:48:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Meade  responded  that she  had  not  seen  information                                                                    
proving  Representative  Josephson's  premise. She  did  not                                                                    
know of any  evidence to prove that people  released OR were                                                                    
pleading  guilty at  a  lower rate  than  those retained  in                                                                    
jail. She understood  the scenario of forcing  a person into                                                                    
a plea  or remain in  jail. She did  not know what  it meant                                                                    
for criminal justice and had  not seen an increase in trials                                                                    
because people had been released OR.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meade wrapped  up her section on  pretrial. She reported                                                                    
that   many   individuals   released  OR   had   supervision                                                                    
(approximately  50  percent)  by PED  officers,  which  only                                                                    
happened  under  SB  91. She  observed  that  supervised  OR                                                                    
release   had been  viewed as  beneficial to  those released                                                                    
pretrial and for public safety.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Carpenter  relayed   that  he   heard  much                                                                    
criticism  about the  assessment tool.  He asked  how threat                                                                    
was  defined: physical  or threat  to recidivate.  Ms. Meade                                                                    
answered that she had meant  risk, not threat. She clarified                                                                    
the  tool used  data  to  measure the  risk  of a  defendant                                                                    
committing a crime and face  new criminal arrest if released                                                                    
or  fail to  appear in  court. Representative  Carpenter was                                                                    
interested in  the data  point. He wanted  to know  what the                                                                    
data was  that was  used to identify  a potential  threat or                                                                    
failure  to  appear. Ms.  Meade  deferred  the question  and                                                                    
related  that the  specific questions  about  the tool  were                                                                    
included in a presentation that  would be heard later in the                                                                    
meeting. Representative  Carpenter asked about a  case where                                                                    
the judge could discern to  rule differently than the tool's                                                                    
ranking.  Ms.   Meade  replied   that  DOC   determined  the                                                                    
assessment  score  that  was  provided  to  the  judge.  She                                                                    
provided an example of a  defendant with a moderate score in                                                                    
court charged with a crime  against a person, at arraignment                                                                    
the  judge could  determine that  bail  or other  conditions                                                                    
were warranted  even if the  matrix presumed an OR  would be                                                                    
appropriate.  The judge  had discretion  to  find clear  and                                                                    
convincing evidence that  a person would be a  risk and rule                                                                    
contrary to the assessment score.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:53:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter asked  whether the options afforded                                                                    
by  the tool  were  the only  options if  the  tool did  not                                                                    
exist. Ms.  Meade communicated  that the  conditions imposed                                                                    
by the  judge was  not established  by the  tool -  the tool                                                                    
simply  conveys  what subsection  of  the  bail statute  was                                                                    
applicable. A person  could be presumed OR by  a charge, but                                                                    
the attorneys  in the  room may try  to provide  evidence to                                                                    
show the  person was a danger.  A judge may rule  that clear                                                                    
and   convincing   evidence   demonstrated   that   pretrial                                                                    
incarceration was necessary.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  asked  the   same  question  of  DOL.  She                                                                    
wondered  whether the  risk  assessment  was the  overriding                                                                    
factor at arraignments.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Skidmore  replied that  the answer  was mixed.  The tool                                                                    
set the  presumptions that the  court must apply in  a case.                                                                    
The presumptions  were different and more  difficult to keep                                                                    
someone in jail than prior  to SB 91 pretrial. Subsequently,                                                                    
with  the  adoption of  HB  312  in 2018,  the  presumptions                                                                    
provided the court the ability  to look for evidence and set                                                                    
other  conditions   if  necessary.   He  relayed   that  DOL                                                                    
prosecutors felt that  the results of working  with the tool                                                                    
was varied.  A prosecutor working  on a drug  case recounted                                                                    
one  defendant who  was released  OR before  arraignment who                                                                    
had  been released  10  to  12 times  prior  to the  current                                                                    
charge; the  defendant committed  one crime and  was brought                                                                    
back for  offending numerous times  but was  still released.                                                                    
He emphasized  that it was  not statistical evidence  and he                                                                    
could  not  comment  on  how   frequently  it  occurred.  He                                                                    
offered  that  similar instances  were  reported  to him  by                                                                    
other  prosecutors.   He  stated   that  DOL   continued  to                                                                    
experience issues that were cause for concern.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:58:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  asked for  clarification about  whether the                                                                    
attorneys brought evidence forward to  the judge, or did the                                                                    
judge  find   the  information  about  the   defendant.  Mr.                                                                    
Skidmore  answered that  in a  bail hearing  the prosecution                                                                    
and  defense  both  presented   information  and  the  judge                                                                    
ultimately decided.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter understood  that a  presumption of                                                                    
innocence  was  implied, and  a  judge  must make  decisions                                                                    
based on data  in a matrix. He stressed that  the  pain  his                                                                    
constituents were  feeling was due to  the picture presented                                                                    
by Mr.  Skidmore. He  believed that  "justice was  not being                                                                    
served"  and that  defendants were  being released  and were                                                                    
immediately  committing  crimes  again.  He  was  trying  to                                                                    
determine why the person with  the responsibility to discern                                                                    
whether  a person  should  be behind  bars  or released  was                                                                    
relying on a  matrix he believed was flawed.  He opined that                                                                    
the tool  was "tying judges'  hands." He surmised  there was                                                                    
either an issue  with judgement or there was  a problem with                                                                    
the tool. He felt the tool was the "fundamental problem".                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  noted that the  questions being  asked were                                                                    
relevant. She  contended that prior  to SB 91 "the  tool was                                                                    
the   judge."   She   reiterated  that   subsequently,   the                                                                    
legislature  had changed  the  law to  a  limited extent  to                                                                    
allow judges  more discretion but  not full  discretion. She                                                                    
deduced that unless a prosecutor  had convincing evidence to                                                                    
the  contrary, a  judge would  automatically use  the matrix                                                                    
and possibly  release the defendant.  She concluded  that if                                                                    
the tool  was allowing people  to reoffend, the  tool needed                                                                    
statutory revision.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:02:46 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  believed that  there was  a larger                                                                    
problem that needed  to be fixed and "could not  hold a tool                                                                    
accountable." He asserted that  a process existed that could                                                                    
hold  a  judge  accountable  and  stated  that  he  was  not                                                                    
implying all judges were "bad" or lacking perspicacity.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  countered that the legislature  created the                                                                    
statute  requiring  the  use of  the  tool  "overriding  the                                                                    
judge." She believed  that the legislature was  at fault for                                                                    
creating  the statutes  dictating what  comprised the  tool.                                                                    
Neither  the  judge  nor  the  tool  could  be  blamed.  She                                                                    
questioned   whether the statues  governing the  tool needed                                                                    
to  be  changed or  whether  to  return full  discretion  to                                                                    
judges.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Johnston  asked  what  the  legislature  did  in                                                                    
HB 312. She remembered that more  discretion was returned to                                                                    
the judges but  was not sure of the full  extent. She voiced                                                                    
that  before the  legislature  attempted  to remediate  more                                                                    
issues,  she wanted  to know  why  the results  were not  as                                                                    
expected.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:05:09 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Meade  indicated  that  the changes  in  HB  312  fully                                                                    
eliminated  the mandatory  release  category, which  granted                                                                    
the  judge more  discretion in  some cases.  The legislation                                                                    
also  provided  the  judge  the   ability  to  consider  the                                                                    
person's  out-of-state history  when  setting conditions  of                                                                    
release, which  were not considered  in the tool.  The judge                                                                    
was granted  more discretion but not  complete discretion in                                                                    
HB 312.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  remembered that  the risk  assessment tool                                                                    
was developed out  of national reform efforts.  He asked who                                                                    
recommended the tool.  Ms. Meade answered that  the tool was                                                                    
required by  SB 91 and PED  had the job of  establishing the                                                                    
tool.  The Judicial  Council was  involved  in staffing  the                                                                    
group  that  examined the  state's  data  and developed  the                                                                    
tool. Vice-Chair  Ortiz asked if  any evidence  existed that                                                                    
the  tool created  problems for  judges.  Ms. Meade  relayed                                                                    
that some judges  liked the tool and others  did not believe                                                                    
it was helpful. Whether a judge  liked the tool or not, they                                                                    
applied it because of the statutory requirement.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson asked  who had  approved the  specific tool                                                                    
currently  in  use.  Ms. Meade  answered  that  the  statute                                                                    
stated that the  DOC commissioner "shall adopt  a tool." She                                                                    
recounted  that the  tool's development  took much  time and                                                                    
effort. Subsequently, a group  under DOC "unveiled" the tool                                                                    
and  it  had been  adopted  later  by the  Criminal  Justice                                                                    
Commission,  created by  the legislature  in 2015.  Co-Chair                                                                    
Wilson  surmised that  the tool  was untested  and had  been                                                                    
implemented by  DOC. She deduced  that the  Criminal Justice                                                                    
Commission  and DOC  had likely  never  developed a  similar                                                                    
tool. She  recognized the good  intent of the  group despite                                                                    
its  inexperience.   She  noted   that  data  was   so  far,                                                                    
insufficient to determine the efficacy of the tool.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:10:30 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meade  amended Co-Chair  Wilson statement  regarding DOC                                                                    
lacking the expertise to develop  the tool. She informed the                                                                    
committee  that DOC  had  employed experienced  professional                                                                    
social scientists  to look at data  and come up with  a tool                                                                    
that would work for Alaska.  She countered that the tool had                                                                    
been created  by people who  knew what they were  doing. She                                                                    
added  that before  the  tool had  been  unveiled, they  had                                                                    
performed testing  to protect against regional  and cultural                                                                    
disparities.  Currently,  retesting   was  underway  by  the                                                                    
University  of  Alaska  to see  if  modifications  would  be                                                                    
advisable.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson asked  if any  of the  individuals involved                                                                    
had ever made  a tool in the past. Ms.  Meade pointed to one                                                                    
participant named Dr. Kristen  Bechtel [Director of Criminal                                                                    
Justice Research,  Arnold Ventures]  had created a  tool for                                                                    
other  jurisdictions. Co-Chair  Wilson opined  that "a  tool                                                                    
that let people out of jail 10 times had problems."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson understood  that under  SB 91  the                                                                    
judge could  not act on  that person's criminal  activity in                                                                    
another state. Currently,  under HB 312 it  was possible. He                                                                    
asked if  judges could go  a step  further under HB  312 and                                                                    
hold  the person  in jail  or  could they  only "enhance  or                                                                    
toughen  up release  conditions." Ms.  Meade confirmed  that                                                                    
the "out-of-state criminal history  was not accounted for in                                                                    
the risk score itself." She noted  that the reason had to do                                                                    
with access  to FBI  data. She outlined  that when  the tool                                                                    
was  being  developed the  FBI  refused  to release  certain                                                                    
information  necessary  for   the  validation  process.  She                                                                    
elaborated   that   a   defendant   was   quired   regarding                                                                    
convictions in  the past five years  but, the tool   did not                                                                    
score for  out-of-state convictions. However, the  judge was                                                                    
presented with  additional information on the  bottom of the                                                                    
PED  report at  the  arraignment and  DOL  could offer  more                                                                    
information  concerning  a  person's  out-of-state  criminal                                                                    
history. If  the judge determined that  clear and convincing                                                                    
evidence was presented,  a person could be held  in jail. In                                                                    
addition, if  the court  released a  defendant OR  the judge                                                                    
could  examine  the   out-of-state  convictions  and  impose                                                                    
conditions of release.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:15:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Wilson   requested   to  begin   the   PowerPoint                                                                    
presentation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Winkleman  provided  a PowerPoint  presentation  titled                                                                    
"Criminal Justice  Review: The Story of  Offender Joe" (copy                                                                    
on file). She began on slide  1 of the presentation titled "                                                                    
Offender Joe's First Offense:"                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Arrested for Misconduct Involving Controlled Substance                                                                     
     II                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Upon arrest, Pretrial Officer completes the risk                                                                           
     assessment tool and forwards to the courts                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     The risk assessment tool is used to determine a                                                                            
     defendant's risk of re-offending and failure to appear                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Offender Joe scores a 4, so the Judge releases to                                                                          
     Pretrial Enforcement Supervision                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Winkleman   informed  the   committee  that   the  risk                                                                    
assessment  tool  was  "static"   and  did  not  require  an                                                                    
interview  with the  defendant.  In  addition, PED  utilized                                                                    
data  bases to  gather  available out-of-state  information.                                                                    
She indicated  that the  tool was  developed with  the Crime                                                                    
and Justice  Institute, using  their research  and analysis.                                                                    
She  explained   that  the  institute  examined   data  from                                                                    
approximately   20,000   cases   statewide  and   used   its                                                                    
experience  with  risk  assessment tools  elsewhere  in  the                                                                    
country.  She confirmed  that the  University of  Alaska was                                                                    
currently examining  the risk  assessment tool  to determine                                                                    
whether adjustment was necessary.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson wondered what the  chances were of releasing                                                                    
a  newcomer  to  the  state, who  offended  within  days  of                                                                    
arriving, with  a dangerous out-of-state record  because the                                                                    
system  was moving  so quickly.  Ms. Winkleman  replied that                                                                    
the   scenario   depended   on  whether   the   out-of-state                                                                    
information  was  available  in   the  databases  DOC  could                                                                    
access.  Co-Chair Wilson  surmised  that it  was possible  a                                                                    
dangerous person  could be released. Ms.  Winkleman answered                                                                    
in the affirmative.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:22:28 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:23:06 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Winkleman moved  to slide 2 titled  "New Criminal Arrest                                                                    
Scale" and addressed  the scale on the  slide. She explained                                                                    
that the  pretrial risk  assessment was  referred to  as the                                                                    
"AK2S."  The chart  illustrated the  scale from  one to  ten                                                                    
that  weighed  six  risk  factors. The  scale  was  used  to                                                                    
determine a score of one to ten.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson asked whether  the probation officer entered                                                                    
the data.  Ms. Winkleman answered that  a "pretrial services                                                                    
officer" was an officer of  the court, which meant that they                                                                    
had authority  in district court for  misdemeanants versus a                                                                    
probation officer.  A pretrial services  officer, "otherwise                                                                    
known as  a  probation  officer" via statute,  performed the                                                                    
risk assessment  and provided it  to court and was  the same                                                                    
officer who would also perform pretrial supervision.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston  referenced how a  person's out-of-state                                                                    
record was  reported in Alaska.  She asked  if it was  up to                                                                    
DOL to follow up for the judge.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Winkleman deferred to Ms. Meade and Mr. Skidmore.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meade  concurred with Mr.  Skidmore and  reiterated that                                                                    
the  arraignment was  an  "adversarial  proceeding" and  the                                                                    
judge would  view the  DOC report  and the  prosecutor would                                                                    
bring  forward   more  information   regarding  out-of-state                                                                    
criminal history.  The defense  could argue  the prosecutors                                                                    
point with its own information.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:26:47 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter looked at  the last bullet on slide                                                                    
1 related  to offender Joe  scoring a 4, which  released him                                                                    
to the PED.  He asked if it meant the  judge determined that                                                                    
releasing him  to PED  was appropriate  or because  the tool                                                                    
prescribed  the  action  due to  the  score.  Ms.  Winkleman                                                                    
replied that the score is merely  a tool DOC provided to the                                                                    
court  and   was  only   one  factor   a  judge   took  into                                                                    
consideration.  Representative Carpenter  felt his  question                                                                    
was not answered and reiterated  his question. Ms. Winkleman                                                                    
responded that  the score reflected  whether a person  was a                                                                    
low, moderate,  or high risk.  The judge looked at  the bail                                                                    
schedule  corresponding to  the  score  and determined  what                                                                    
factors she would consider.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter  wanted  more  clarity.  He  asked                                                                    
whether a judge  had the authority to disregard  the tool to                                                                    
do what  he thought was  best for the individual.  Ms. Meade                                                                    
replied  in  the  negative.  She  stated  that  the  statute                                                                    
mandated that  the judge had  to take the tool's  score into                                                                    
account  in  his decision  making.  She  clarified that  the                                                                    
statute, AS.12.30.011 held the  judge to the action dictated                                                                    
by  a  level  4  score,   which  was  OR  unless  clear  and                                                                    
convincing evidence  was offered that the  judge should rule                                                                    
otherwise. She  emphasized that the conditions  were set via                                                                    
statute and  not by  the tool  nor the  judge's discernment.                                                                    
She expanded  that what was considered  clear and convincing                                                                    
evidence was  affected by the judge's  decisions, which lead                                                                    
to arguments regarding whether  more sentencing was prudent.                                                                    
She declared  that "the tool  cannot be  disregarded because                                                                    
of  the  statute that  said  the  tool drives  the  decision                                                                    
making."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:30:17 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter thought  he better  understood the                                                                    
problem now.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  inquired that if  no one in the  court room                                                                    
could counter  the score with  more evidence, the  judge had                                                                    
to release  the person  according to  the matrix.  Ms. Meade                                                                    
answered  that it  was not  a "must"  but was  a presumption                                                                    
that required clear and convincing  evidence to overcome the                                                                    
presumption. Co-Chair  Wilson surmised  that the tool  was a                                                                    
"must." She  declared that  unless other  circumstances were                                                                    
brought up the  judge's hands were tied.  Ms. Meade conceded                                                                    
that  she agreed  to Co-Chair  Wilson's  statement in  "some                                                                    
respects" but maintained that  clear and convincing evidence                                                                    
had to be provided to the judge to overcome the assessment.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Carpenter  offered   that  the   individual                                                                    
sitting  on  the bench  had  the  responsibility to  make  a                                                                    
judgement. He opined that by  removing their discretion, the                                                                    
state was  paying judges to  do less because they  were only                                                                    
authorized to follow a matrix.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson remarked  that the  same increased                                                                    
presumption  was created  in discretionary  parole and  more                                                                    
evidence  was  necessary.   He  agreed  with  Representative                                                                    
Carpenter.  However,  he  did  not  agree  that  the  former                                                                    
criminal justice system was a  good one and that two million                                                                    
people should be incarcerated in  the United States (US). He                                                                    
believed that  "the preponderance  standard was  more robust                                                                    
than we realized."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  relayed that he  had not voted for  SB 91,                                                                    
but the decision making process  had been complicated and he                                                                    
was still uncertain about his vote.  He spoke to the goal of                                                                    
making a  better criminal justice system.  He didn't believe                                                                    
the data existed to justify  changing the law. He noted that                                                                    
SB 91 was only in effect  a very short time and was adjusted                                                                    
again with  HB 312  and was  concerned that  the legislature                                                                    
was   currently   considering    further   adjustments.   He                                                                    
acknowledged   the  concerns   of  citizens   but  expressed                                                                    
frustration   with   enacting   changes  without   data   as                                                                    
justification. He  referenced Vice-Chair  Johnston's earlier                                                                    
comments that  the state currently  lacked updated  data. He                                                                    
reminded  the  committee  that the  reforms  were  partially                                                                    
enacted  to  create savings  due  to  significant costs.  He                                                                    
indicated that  the fiscal concerns  remained a  reality. He                                                                    
felt the  legislature was trying  to develop a  more perfect                                                                    
system,  but he  did not  believe it  would ever  happen. He                                                                    
pointed out  that people were  still incarcerated  for first                                                                    
and second  time drug offences  and it was probably  not the                                                                    
best  solution. He  found  the  current situation  extremely                                                                    
frustrating. He thought the efforts were almost pointless.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:37:03 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson understood his concerns  and stated that she                                                                    
had voted  for SB 91 and  believed that the data  was a huge                                                                    
missing  piece of  the problem.  She offered  that her  main                                                                    
concern  was   not  the  costs   but  addressing   the  high                                                                    
recidivism rate  of 67 percent.  She had discerned  that the                                                                    
state  was not  getting results  by continuing  in the  same                                                                    
manner. She  discussed that the course  was making revisions                                                                    
without  the data,  but the  legislature had  been told  the                                                                    
data did  not exist  yet. She  suggested that  regardless of                                                                    
insufficient  data,   constituents'  concerns   about  crime                                                                    
reflected the "real world"  experiences. The question became                                                                    
how  to  take  the  real  world  data  and  make  applicable                                                                    
corrections  into  law.  She  emphasized  that  the  prudent                                                                    
matter was  how to measure  the effect of the  revisions the                                                                    
legislature had enacted.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Ortiz  agreed if the effects  could be accurately                                                                    
measured;  however, there  were myriad  of social  and other                                                                    
factors existing  related to an  increase in crime  rate. He                                                                    
would like to believe that the  reason was SB 91, but he did                                                                    
not believe  the conclusion was  real. He  suggested waiting                                                                    
for  the   data  and  stressed  that   the  legislature  was                                                                    
attempting to  enact significant changes without  the facts.                                                                    
He  conceded that  his suggested  course of  action did  not                                                                    
satisfy constituents.                                                                                                           
10:40:38 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston  observed that  currently data  was more                                                                    
easily collected  and was hopeful  to receive  more criminal                                                                    
justice  data,  although   costly.  She  referenced  concern                                                                    
related   to  judges'   discretion  and   noted  that   some                                                                    
discretion   had  been   returned  to   judges  through   an                                                                    
adversarial process  in courts. She discussed  providing the                                                                    
tools  needed by  DOL and  the Department  of Administration                                                                    
(DOA) [Public  Defender Agency] to provide  the judge enough                                                                    
information  to make  the decisions.  She noted  that Alaska                                                                    
had  incarcerated a  large population  and believed  that it                                                                    
was larger than necessary.  She emphasized that the criminal                                                                    
justice issues were a significant financial problem.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson asked  Mr. Skidmore  to  contribute to  the                                                                    
discussion.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson asked  whether Mr.  Skidmore believed  that                                                                    
currently the data existed for  the legislature to drive its                                                                    
decision  making process.  She asked  Mr. Skidmore  to relay                                                                    
his personal  experiences with how  the tool was  working in                                                                    
court.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:43:34 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Skidmore   heard  the  frustration  expressed   by  the                                                                    
committee  related to  current data.  He added  that he  was                                                                    
aware of  the publics'  frustration based on  its perception                                                                    
of how  the criminal justice  system was operating.  He also                                                                    
heard  from   prosecutors  around  the  state   about  their                                                                    
frustrations with  the pretrial process. He  reiterated that                                                                    
he did not have all  the specific statistics the legislature                                                                    
was seeking but took as  evidence the shared frustrations he                                                                    
heard from  multiple parties:  the public,  law enforcement,                                                                    
and  prosecutors  who  spoke   about  the  same  issues.  He                                                                    
considered that  what had  changed was  the law  and whether                                                                    
there were measures available  to alleviate the frustrations                                                                    
within  the  law. He  was  uncertain  whether specific  data                                                                    
could address all the concerns  voiced by the committee. Co-                                                                    
Chair  Wilson asked  if Mr.  Skidmore believed  the pretrial                                                                    
system  was  better  than the  prior  system.  Mr.  Skidmore                                                                    
replied  in  the  negative. Co-Chair  Wilson  asked  if  Mr.                                                                    
Skidmore would  eliminate the  current pretrial  system. Mr.                                                                    
Skidmore answered  that he would make  modifications. He did                                                                    
not  believe the  current system  was superior  to the  past                                                                    
system. He would consider what  would replace the process if                                                                    
the current system was removed.  He believed there were some                                                                    
changes  needed  that  had  not  been  sorted  out  yet.  He                                                                    
believed   more  study   was  necessary   on  the   pretrial                                                                    
assessment tool and did not  believe it was working well. He                                                                    
questioned how to do further  study without turning Alaska's                                                                    
pretrial process into an experiment.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:47:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  reported the  committee would  take several                                                                    
more questions on pretrial. She  subsequently wanted to hear                                                                    
from  Mr. Skidmore  on  what a  superior  system would  look                                                                    
like.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  deduced   that  if  the  pretrial                                                                    
assessment tool was eliminated,  he believed that the hiring                                                                    
of 60 additional PED officers  was a positive result. He was                                                                    
pondering how that outcome could be viewed negatively.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  requested the answer be  deferred until Mr.                                                                    
Skidmore responds. She wished  to return to the presentation                                                                    
and finish the slides related to pretrial.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:48:54 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Winkleman moved to slide  3 and addressed a graph titled                                                                    
"NCA Rate by  Total Score." [New Criminal  Arrest (NCA)] She                                                                    
asked Mr.  Skidmore to comment. Mr.  Skidmore clarified that                                                                    
a risk  assessment score of  4 was not  considered moderate.                                                                    
He relayed the  scale:1-5 was low, 6-9 was  moderate, and 10                                                                    
was high. He pointed to the  graph on slide 3 and noted that                                                                    
the  X axis  score of  zero  represented a  14 percent  risk                                                                    
level and  on the  Y axis  up to a  58.1 percent  risk level                                                                    
with a score  of 10. He related that when  SB 91 was written                                                                    
the  three risk  assessment categories  were chosen  without                                                                    
data.  Subsequent  data had  determined  that  there were  5                                                                    
categories; very  low, low,  moderate, moderately  high, and                                                                    
high.  He  expounded  that  since  only  3  categories  were                                                                    
created via  statute the  5 categories  had to  be collapsed                                                                    
into three.  He illustrated  that a score  of 14  percent to                                                                    
36  percent  risk corresponded  to  a  score  of 5  and  was                                                                    
considered low, moderate was represented  by a score of 6 at                                                                    
43.1 percent,  and a  score of  9 at  53.5 percent  risk was                                                                    
high.  He cited  slide 2  that contained  the NCA  scale and                                                                    
ascertained that  the first  factor: if  the person  was not                                                                    
arrested before  the age  of 21, would  never score  high on                                                                    
the  scale regardless  of other  factors. He  indicated that                                                                    
the  assessment tool  set the  standard by  which the  court                                                                    
started  from -  the presumption  the court  used to  decide                                                                    
release  factors.  He believed  that  relative  to the  risk                                                                    
factor and weights the scores  posed the "fundamental issue"                                                                    
for prosecutors  and not a  risk assessment tool  itself. He                                                                    
believed a  risk assessment tool could  bring consistency to                                                                    
the  process  and  was  sensible.  He  countered  that  when                                                                    
considering the current scale, the  risk assessment tool was                                                                    
a concern.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:53:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  asked for  verification that  if a                                                                    
person did not become an offender  until the age of 21, they                                                                    
could never be  considered a highly ranked  risk offender on                                                                    
the  scale. Mr.  Skidmore responded  in the  affirmative. He                                                                    
explained that the highest the  person could be ranked was a                                                                    
9 in the scenario.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Winkleman  turned to slide  5 titled "Failure  to Appear                                                                    
Scale." She reviewed  the six risk factors  indicated on the                                                                    
chart.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Age at first arrest in DPS history                                                                                         
     Total number of prior FTA warrants ever                                                                                    
     Total number of prior FTA warrants in the past 3 years                                                                     
     Current  IFTA charge  (or violation)                                                                                       
   At least one  property charge on current arrest/case                                                                         
     At least one motor vehicle charge on current arrest/                                                                       
     case (non - DUI)                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Winkleman  explained that the 6  factors were considered                                                                    
for  the  second  part  of the  scale  (Failure  to  Appear)                                                                    
regarding new criminal activity.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson asked  what  a  property or  motor                                                                    
vehicle  charge  had  to  do with  failure  to  appear.  Ms.                                                                    
Winkleman deferred to Mr. Skidmore.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Skidmore clarified that he had  not been part of a group                                                                    
that  set up  the risk  assessment, he  had been  part of  a                                                                    
group  that  reviewed  it. He  answered  that  the  property                                                                    
charge was under AS.11.46.  Representative Josephson did not                                                                    
understand the answer.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Wilson   clarified   Representative   Josephson's                                                                    
question. Mr. Skidmore elaborated that  the charge had to be                                                                    
a crime under AS.11.46.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson  was  trying to  determine  why  a                                                                    
property  charge  was relevant  to  whether  a person  would                                                                    
appear  in  court and  relevant  to  having committee  other                                                                    
crimes. Mr. Skidmore  was unable to answer  the question. He                                                                    
elaborated that  according to Alaska criminal  history data,                                                                    
one of  the common  denominators for  failure to  appear was                                                                    
when a person had prior property crime charges.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Wilson  surmised   that   the  scale's   creators                                                                    
"obviously had data."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:58:47 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter believed that  the data was "cherry                                                                    
picked." He felt  that what passed the  commonsense test was                                                                    
that a  factor that considered alcohol  or drug convictions.                                                                    
Mr. Skidmore replied  that the data examined  was related to                                                                    
convictions and alcohol or drug  issues were not necessarily                                                                    
reflected in  the convictions themselves. He  expounded that                                                                    
convictions  did  not  specify  whether a  person  also  had                                                                    
alcohol or drug issues. He  remarked that DUI convictions or                                                                    
misconduct  involving   a  controlled  substance   might  be                                                                    
indicative of  substance abuse.  He added  that most  of the                                                                    
property  or violent  crimes  convictions  did not  consider                                                                    
substance abuse  issues and was  unable to be  factored into                                                                    
the risk assessment tool. He  concluded that the issue posed                                                                    
the question of how the  assessment tool should be utilized.                                                                    
Representative  Carpenter  restated  his  concern  that  the                                                                    
judge's hands  were tied if  they concluded that  an alcohol                                                                    
or drug  issue was  involved. Mr.  Skidmore answered  that a                                                                    
judge was  able to consider  substance abuse, but it  had to                                                                    
amount  to clear  and convincing  evidence  that the  person                                                                    
would  not  appear  in  court  or commit  a  new  crime.  He                                                                    
elaborated   that  previously   a   judge   could  weigh   a                                                                    
preponderance of evidence to justify  his concern versus the                                                                    
current  condition of  clear and  convincing  evidence on  a                                                                    
case by case basis.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson deduced that the  data at the time the scale                                                                    
was  developed  was   only  analyzing  individuals  released                                                                    
pretrial and  did not  include those  incarcerated pretrial.                                                                    
She thought that aspect skewed the data.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
11:03:03 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Skidmore believed her statement  was accurate. He agreed                                                                    
that  the  researchers  could  only  analyze  the  data  for                                                                    
defendants who  were released pretrial  because a  person in                                                                    
custody would  not give an  accurate assessment of  how they                                                                    
would perform  during release. He contemplated  how the risk                                                                    
assessment   currently  worked   since  larger   numbers  of                                                                    
defendants were released pretrial.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Winkleman moved  to slide 6 and reviewed  a chart titled                                                                    
"FTA  Rate by  Total Score."  She  returned to  slide 5  and                                                                    
explained  that regarding  the failure  to appear  risk, the                                                                    
property  and  motor vehicle  charges  were  charges on  the                                                                    
current offense and  not a part of  the defendant's history.                                                                    
She  concurred that  the researcher  had found  higher risks                                                                    
for  a defendant  with property  or  motor vehicle  charges;                                                                    
therefore, was included in the scale.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Skidmore  interjected that the  same issue  existed with                                                                    
the FTA  scale as  with the NCA  scale with  four categories                                                                    
instead of five. He pointed  to the four categories on slide                                                                    
7 titled "FTA Rate by  Total Score Ranges." He expanded that                                                                    
decisions  regarding  how  to reduce  four  categories  into                                                                    
three had to be made in advance of 2018 to follow the law.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Merrick  asked  what  elements  comprised  a                                                                    
motor vehicle  charge. Mr. Skidmore replied  that it applied                                                                    
to  vehicle theft.  He listed  examples of  property crimes:                                                                    
theft,  forgery,  criminal   mischief.  He  summarized  that                                                                    
stealing  or causing  damage  to property  was  the type  of                                                                    
conduct encompassed under property crimes.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:07:33 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Winkleman moved to slide 8 [no title]:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Several   weeks   later,    while   out   on   pretrial                                                                    
     supervision,  Offender  Joe   is  arrested  on  another                                                                    
     Misconduct Involving  a Controlled Substance  II charge                                                                    
     and Violating Conditions of Release.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
          Pretrial Officer completes risk assessment tool                                                                       
     (score remains a 4) and provides the report to the                                                                         
     Court                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          Offender Joe still scored low (4) and the Judge                                                                       
     releases him on Pretrial Supervision                                                                                       
     again                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          This may repeat until Joe does not commit a new                                                                       
     crime or the judge sets conditions that cause Offender                                                                     
     Joe to remain in custody                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Winkleman   expounded  that  PED  had   two  functions:                                                                    
performing  risk  assessment  and providing  supervision  to                                                                    
pretrial  defendants. The  supervision was  dictated by  the                                                                    
risk score and the judge's  conditions. She commented on the                                                                    
third bullet point; the first  two steps were steps repeated                                                                    
with any new crimes until  Joe stopped committing new crimes                                                                    
or the judge  set conditions that prohibited  Joe from being                                                                    
released from custody.  She added that an  individual can be                                                                    
placed on pretrial supervision on multiple cases.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:09:44 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  wondered  why  the tool  did  not  make  a                                                                    
distinction   between  the   first   offense  and   multiple                                                                    
offenses.  She  would  never have  guessed  a  person  could                                                                    
reoffend  on  the  same  charge  and  be  released  pretrial                                                                    
multiple times. She asked what  the point was. Ms. Winkleman                                                                    
offered  that she  had not  been  part of  writing the  risk                                                                    
assessment.  She explained  that the  risk assessment  was a                                                                    
static tool and did not address the issue.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  believed that  statue did  not specifically                                                                    
mandate  the  use  of  the  current  tool  over  others  and                                                                    
wondered  if  she was  correct.  Ms.  Meade replied  in  the                                                                    
affirmative. Co-Chair  Wilson asked what  statute prohibited                                                                    
DOC from  correcting the assessment  tool. She  thought that                                                                    
allowing pretrial  release multiple times was  "insane." She                                                                    
had heard of the scenario  for domestic violence charges and                                                                    
not  only regarding  property crimes.  She inquired  whether                                                                    
DOC was attempting to correct the tool.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
KELLY    GOODE,   DEPUTY    COMMISSIONER,   DEPARTMENT    OF                                                                    
CORRECTIONS,  affirmed   that  the  department   shared  her                                                                    
concerns.  She reported  that the  risk assessment  tool was                                                                    
being addressed in the governor's other crime bills.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson believed that  legislation was not necessary                                                                    
for DOC to  enact changes. She asked why DOC  would not make                                                                    
corrections  to the  tool. Ms.  Goode replied  that DOC  was                                                                    
talking to DOL about the  issue. She agreed the issue needed                                                                    
to  be  addressed.  She   indicated  that  considering  what                                                                    
constituted the  right fix  was currently  under discussion.                                                                    
The department  wanted to fix the  tool if it was  not going                                                                    
to  be  eliminated.  Co-Chair   Wilson  thought  the  entire                                                                    
committee  believed  that   multiple  pretrial  release  was                                                                    
wrong.  She   emphasized  that  the  departments   were  the                                                                    
experts,  not the  legislature and  she found  it remarkable                                                                    
that tool  was not  currently corrected. She  concluded that                                                                    
the problem was  known and did not require  a statute change                                                                    
to address  it, yet  the administration  was looking  to the                                                                    
legislature to  fix the problem. She  expressed exasperation                                                                    
over the issue.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:15:24 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter asked  for  verification that  DOC                                                                    
owned  the  tool. Ms.  Goode  answered  in the  affirmative.                                                                    
Representative  Carpenter  asked  if DOC  could  change  the                                                                    
tool. Ms.  Goode replied in the  affirmative. Representative                                                                    
Carpenter  asked why  the department  was waiting  to change                                                                    
the  tool.  Ms. Goode  replied  that  prior legislation  had                                                                    
proposed to  eliminate the tool. The  department was waiting                                                                    
to see the outcome.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson  asked  Mr.  Skidmore  when  DOL  began  to                                                                    
observed  issues involving  multiple  release. Mr.  Skidmore                                                                    
replied that  prosecutors had experienced the  issue shortly                                                                    
after the reforms  were implemented 2018. He  noted that the                                                                    
department was  still evaluating  the changes  subsequent to                                                                    
SB 91's  rollout. He pointed  to Section  117 of SB  91 that                                                                    
discussed AS  33.07.020 subsection  5 and reported  that the                                                                    
statute authorized approval of  a risk assessment instrument                                                                    
that was  "objective, standardized,  and developed  based on                                                                    
analysis  of empirical  data and  risk  factors relevant  to                                                                    
pretrial  failure." He  underlined that  in order  to change                                                                    
the  tool,  the statute  required  a  whole new  process  to                                                                    
change  the  tool. He  posed  the  question of  whether  the                                                                    
legislature  wanted  to follow  the  process  in statute  to                                                                    
change  the tool  or find  another  solution regarding  DOCs                                                                    
management of the tool. He  voiced that DOC currently had to                                                                    
follow the statute enacted in SB 91.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter was  trying  to  identify who  had                                                                    
"personal responsibility  for the  failure of the  tool." He                                                                    
wondered  whether  someone  from   DOC  "understood  what  a                                                                    
measure  of  effectiveness  was." He  inquired  whether  the                                                                    
correct  data  was  collected  or if  the  issue  was  being                                                                    
ignored until  another process was  put in place.  Ms. Goode                                                                    
related that  that was the  reason the University  of Alaska                                                                    
Anchorage  (UAA)  was  trying   to  validate  the  tool.  In                                                                    
addition, DOC  reached out  to the  experts who  created the                                                                    
tool. Representative Carpenter  suspected the department had                                                                    
the expertise and knew the  criminals in the system to start                                                                    
collecting the  data to evaluate  the tool. He  pondered how                                                                    
UAA  could  understand  the problems  better  than  DOC.  He                                                                    
wanted DOC  to figure out  a way  of collecting the  data to                                                                    
formulate  a  solution. He  wondered  whether  the data  was                                                                    
being collected.  He deduced that  it would be  difficult to                                                                    
know whether the tool was  effective if there was no measure                                                                    
of effectiveness.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:21:38 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson asked whether DOC  had the statutory ability                                                                    
to  alter one  portion of  the tool  rather than  the entire                                                                    
risk  assessment system.  Mr.  Skidmore  responded that  the                                                                    
department  was required  to revise  the  entire system.  He                                                                    
cited the remainder of AS.33.07.020:                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
      Sec. 33.07.020.   Duties of commissioner; pretrial                                                                        
     services.                                                                                                                  
     The commissioner shall                                                                                                     
          (1)  appoint  and make  available to  the superior                                                                    
               court and district court qualified pretrial                                                                      
               services officers;                                                                                               
       (2) fix pretrial services officers' salaries;                                                                            
          (3)  assign  pretrial  services officers  to  each                                                                    
          judicial district;                                                                                                    
          (4)   provide  for   the  necessary   supervision,                                                                    
          training,  expenses, including  clerical services,                                                                    
         and travel of pretrial services officers;                                                                              
          (5) approve  a risk assessment instrument  that is                                                                    
          objective,  standardized, and  developed based  on                                                                    
          analysis  of  empirical   data  and  risk  factors                                                                    
          relevant to  pretrial failure, that  evaluates the                                                                    
          likelihood of  failure to appear in  court and the                                                                    
          likelihood   of  rearrest   during  the   pretrial                                                                    
          period,  and  that  is validated  on  the  state's                                                                    
          pretrial population;                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Skidmore emphasized the words  "validated on the state's                                                                    
pretrial population." He delineated that  the data had to be                                                                    
collected from  the entire pre-trial  system, which  DOC was                                                                    
doing. The university was involved  in order to validate the                                                                    
state's  pretrial  population,   which  entailed  collecting                                                                    
criminal histories  from DOC and  other entities  outside of                                                                    
the department. The validation process  was a social science                                                                    
and  statistical process  from  a  broad perspective  versus                                                                    
looking  at everyone  currently in  the system.  The process                                                                    
had   to  address   the  entire   system;  therefore,   data                                                                    
collection  would have  to include  all  the population.  He                                                                    
furthered that the only way  to address risk assessment case                                                                    
by case was  for the system to provide  the judge parameters                                                                    
to  make decisions  and lessen  the influence  of the  tool,                                                                    
which were dictated by statute.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston referred  to slide 8 and  noted that Joe                                                                    
had a  low score of 4  since only 2 points  were awarded for                                                                    
prior arrests in  5 years and 2 points for  prior arrests in                                                                    
3 years.  She asked whether  her statement was  correct. Ms.                                                                    
Winkleman responded in  the affirmative. Vice-Chair Johnston                                                                    
deduced that  no matter how  many arrests the  offender only                                                                    
received  2 points  if no  probation  or incarceration  took                                                                    
place, which  kept the score  static. She asked  whether her                                                                    
statement    was    correct.   Ms.    Winkleman    responded                                                                    
affirmatively.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston asked whether a  judge had the option of                                                                    
detaining  a repeat  offender if  the district  attorney had                                                                    
adversarial   information.  Ms.   Meade   answered  in   the                                                                    
affirmative.   She   reiterated   that   to   overcome   the                                                                    
presumption  of  OR,  clear   and  convincing  evidence  was                                                                    
necessary.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:26:48 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston  believed that "there were  some answers                                                                    
available"  regarding  the  issue, albeit  not  answers  the                                                                    
committee  may want.  She approved  that  the agencies  were                                                                    
studying the data. She  referenced the national organization                                                                    
Americans  for Prosperity  that championed  criminal justice                                                                    
reform  due to  the high  cost of  incarceration. She  added                                                                    
that all sides of the  political spectrum had identified the                                                                    
high  cost of  incarceration as  one factor  in driving  the                                                                    
reform  discussion. She  pointed  out  that particularly  in                                                                    
Alaska, reform was a financial discussion.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson maintained  that the  concern with                                                                    
SB 91 was that the economy  and the public bore the costs of                                                                    
crime. He  respected the work  of the University  but opined                                                                    
that  it was  on the  side  of criminal  justice reform.  He                                                                    
voiced  concerns about  the  University independently  doing                                                                    
the data  analysis. He believed  the University  was broadly                                                                    
supportive of the  principles of SB 91.  He wondered whether                                                                    
UAA's bias would drive the results of further analysis.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson surmised  that  the  committee should  hear                                                                    
from the University.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meade informed  the committee that Dr.  Myrstol [Brad A.                                                                    
Myrstol,  Ph.D.,  Associate  Professor, UAA]  from  the  UAA                                                                    
Justice  Center  had  testified before  the  committee.  She                                                                    
noted that Mr.  Mistral was well respected, and  she had not                                                                    
heard of any implications of bias.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:30:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  asked Mr.  Skidmore for  concluding remarks                                                                    
regarding pretrial issues and  remedies that the legislature                                                                    
could consider.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Skidmore  encouraged  the   committee  to  think  about                                                                    
whether it wanted  the state to utilize  an assessment tool.                                                                    
He  thought  it  was  beneficial   to  bring  uniformity  in                                                                    
evaluating certain  types of  convictions, but  he cautioned                                                                    
against "stripping  discretion from judges." He  agreed that                                                                    
a judge  was placed on the  bench to make decisions  and use                                                                    
the discretion  built into the  system at "every  level." He                                                                    
recognized  the  importance   of  providing  some  statutory                                                                    
guidance but asserted that taking  a judge's discretion away                                                                    
did  fundamental  harm to  the  system.  He delineated  that                                                                    
statutes were  static, and the  system was designed  to rely                                                                    
on discretion due to the  nuances related to crimes; how the                                                                    
crime  was committed,  the  criminal's background,  criminal                                                                    
history, and  substance abuse issues.  He contended  that it                                                                    
was  impossible to  legislate  every  decision necessary  to                                                                    
allow  judges to  consider  and weigh  all  the factors.  He                                                                    
described  the system  as an  adversarial system,  where the                                                                    
prosecutor and defender presented  varied points of view and                                                                    
the judge  decided. He  reiterated that  the more  the state                                                                    
tried  to  remove  a judge's  discretion,  the  further  the                                                                    
system  moved  away  from  its  design.  He  favored  adding                                                                    
additional officers  and options for the  courts to consider                                                                    
related  to  conditions  of  release.  The  more  tools  the                                                                    
legislature  could  provide  to  the  courts  increased  the                                                                    
likelihood the appropriate tool would be available.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
11:35:58 AM                                                                                                                   
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:45:57 AM                                                                                                                   
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  announced the next  section that  Ms. Meade                                                                    
addressed was sentencing.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Meade addressed  sentencing  changes under  SB 91.  She                                                                    
reported that sex crime sentencing  was not altered under SB
91.  She   elaborated  that  the  presumptive   ranges  were                                                                    
increased for  Murder I  and Murder  II. She  instructed the                                                                    
committee  that  all crimes  were  categorized  by a  class.                                                                    
Felony classification  was as follows  from the  worst type:                                                                    
Unclassified, Class A,  Class B, and Class  C. Offenses that                                                                    
decreased  in  severity  and  impact  was  Classified  as  a                                                                    
misdemeanor having two  classes A and B.  The remainder were                                                                    
considered violations  that were either  traffic infractions                                                                    
or minor offenses.  She indicated that SB 91  did not affect                                                                    
violations.  She continued  that the  presumptive range  for                                                                    
Murder I was increased from 20  to 30 up to 99 years. Murder                                                                    
in the  second degree was increased  from 10 to 15  up to 99                                                                    
years. The  sentencing changes in  SB 91 had been  in effect                                                                    
since July 2016. She explained  that the maximum presumptive                                                                    
ranges  for all  felonies did  not  change with  SB 91.  The                                                                    
maximum was:  Class A -  20 years, Class  B - 10  years, and                                                                    
Class  C- 5  years. However,  felony presumptive  ranges had                                                                    
been decreased by SB 91,  mostly by 2 years. She exemplified                                                                    
that the  presumption for  a first time  Class A  felony had                                                                    
changed from 5 to 8 years to 3 to 6 years.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  asked for a definition  of presumptive. Ms.                                                                    
Meade complied.  She explained that  a judge  would sentence                                                                    
someone  to  the  presumed amount  of  time  unless  certain                                                                    
mitigating or  aggravating factors existed. The  judge could                                                                    
lower  the  presumed sentence  by  mitigators  or raise  the                                                                    
presumed sentence through aggravators.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:50:56 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick  asked whether the  presumptive range                                                                    
had been  decreased by two  years for cost  saving purposes.                                                                    
Ms.  Meade replied  that  the  change had  been  made for  a                                                                    
variety   of   reasons.    She   elaborated   that   studies                                                                    
demonstrated  that  long  jail  sentences did  not  lead  to                                                                    
rehabilitation  and could  lead to  increased recidivism  by                                                                    
the increased exposure to criminal elements.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meade  continued to address sentencing.  She shared that                                                                    
"the issue  that had raised  the most consternation  was the                                                                    
Class C felony" provision  with the presumption of probation                                                                    
only and suspended  time of up to 18 months.  A first time C                                                                    
felon could  not go  to jail. She  added that  vehicle theft                                                                    
was  a  class C  felony.  The  public raised  concerns  that                                                                    
sentencing  for first  time vehicle  theft  did not  include                                                                    
incarceration. The  law had subsequently been  changed by SB
54 - Crimes; Sentencing;  Probation; Parole [Chapter 1 4SSLA                                                                    
17 - 11/29/2017] that increased  one time vehicle theft from                                                                    
zero to two  years, one to four years for  a second offense,                                                                    
and  increased  certain  sentences  within  Class  A  felony                                                                    
offenses. She summarized that SB  54 reversed many of the SB
91 changes for the crimes she listed.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson asked  for verification  that the  level of                                                                    
sentencing  for vehicle  theft was  at present  what it  had                                                                    
been prior  to SB 91.  Ms. Meade agreed   that was  the case                                                                    
for a  first offense. Co-Chair  Wilson asked what  the range                                                                    
was  for  a  second  offense. Ms.  Meade  replied  that  the                                                                    
presumed  sentence for  a second  offense  C felony  vehicle                                                                    
theft was 2 to 4 years and was currently 1 to 3 years.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Merrick asked  about the  zero to  two years                                                                    
for  a  first  time  felony.  She  asked  whether  the  zero                                                                    
included  a mandatory  sentence.  Ms. Meade  replied in  the                                                                    
negative and  added that zero  years was a  possible outcome                                                                    
for  a first  time felony.  Representative Merrick  inquired                                                                    
what  the circumstance  for a  zero year  sentence was.  Ms.                                                                    
Meade deferred to Mr. Skidmore.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:55:03 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Skidmore  responded  that   there  were  many  Class  C                                                                    
felonies that  the provisions applied  to. He  could provide                                                                    
complete  information in  writing. He  elaborated that  some                                                                    
were: assault in  the third degree, vehicle  theft, theft in                                                                    
the  second degree,  and criminal  mischief. He  exemplified                                                                    
that an  assault in the  third degree could  involve causing                                                                    
fear  (e.g.  pointing  a  gun at  a  person  or  threatening                                                                    
someone with  a bat) or  physical assault. There was  a wide                                                                    
range of  conduct under the category.  The presumptive range                                                                    
was elevated when there was  a prior felony offense, but the                                                                    
zero to  two years was  the presumptive range  regardless of                                                                    
the person's criminal history. He  detailed that a judge had                                                                    
to consider  the totality of circumstances  when sentencing.                                                                    
He exemplified  that if a  person committed a  theft because                                                                    
of hunger and  trying to feed their children  it was illegal                                                                    
but  more  understandable  than someone  aiming  to  gain  a                                                                    
profit or harming another person.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:58:05 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Merrick stated that  previously under SB 91 a                                                                    
person could commit  a first time vehicle  theft and receive                                                                    
probation.  She  asked  whether   currently  a  judge  could                                                                    
sentence  zero  jail  time  for   the  crime.  Mr.  Skidmore                                                                    
answered  in  the  affirmative.  SB 54  had  given  a  judge                                                                    
discretion to impose  jail time or probation  only. He added                                                                    
that  under   SB  91   the  judge   was  unable   to  impose                                                                    
incarceration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meade added  that it was extremely rare for  a person to                                                                    
receive no jail time for a Class C felony.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Johnston  discussed that SB 54  changed the Class                                                                    
C felony sentencing.  She noted that sentencing  for Class B                                                                    
felonies  had  not  been  changed under  SB  54.  Ms.  Meade                                                                    
replied in  the affirmative  and added  that the  first time                                                                    
Class B felony  presumption was also zero to  two years. She                                                                    
relayed   that  there   had   been   discussion  about   the                                                                    
constitutionality    and    proportionality   between    the                                                                    
sentencing for both crimes.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Carpenter  asked  about the  prior  Class  B                                                                    
felony  sentencing range.  Ms.  Meade answered  that it  had                                                                    
been one to three years.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  asked for verification  that prior                                                                    
to SB 91 a  person could receive no jail time  for a Class C                                                                    
felony.  Ms. Meade  agreed. Representative  Josephson stated                                                                    
that  case  law  and  statutory law  properly  restrained  a                                                                    
judge's  discretion within  ranges  to  achieve parity.  Ms.                                                                    
Meade  replied  in  the  affirmative.  She  elucidated  that                                                                    
within  presumptions,  sentencing  factors  were  considered                                                                    
because  proportionality   and  equality  was   needed  with                                                                    
respect to other crimes and sentencing.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meade  addressed misdemeanor  sentences; Class A  and B.                                                                    
She  explicated that  Class A  sentences were  changed to  a                                                                    
maximum  of  30  days  in jail,  with  numerous  exceptions.                                                                    
Previously the  sentence had  been a  one year  maximum. The                                                                    
sentence was  still a maximum of  one year if the  crime was                                                                    
the most  serious type of  its classification and if  it was                                                                    
the second time  for a similar offense. The  30 day sentence                                                                    
typically applied  to first  offenders with  similar crimes.                                                                    
She added that certain crimes  were prescribed a sentence of                                                                    
up to one  year i.e. assault IV, which was  a common type of                                                                    
assault  with domestic  violence,  commonly  called a  "fear                                                                    
assault."  She  listed other  crimes  that  could receive  a                                                                    
sentence of up to one  year: sexual assault IV, sexual abuse                                                                    
of a minor  IV, indecent exposure of a person  under the age                                                                    
of 16, harassment I, and  sending explicit images of a minor                                                                    
over the internet.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
12:05:19 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Josephson   asked   why  assault   IV   was                                                                    
considered a fear  assault. Ms. Meade clarified  that it was                                                                    
her   understanding  that   the  primary   assault  IV   was                                                                    
considered a  fear assault  because it  was the  most common                                                                    
charge  in domestic  violence cases.  She was  uncertain her                                                                    
answer  was correct.  Representative Josephson  thought that                                                                    
she  was incorrect.  He noted  that a  person who  hit their                                                                    
spouse was also charged with an assault IV.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Skidmore   answered   that  assault   IV   had   three                                                                    
subsections. He confirmed that fear  assault was one type of                                                                    
Assault IV  and causing physical injury  was also classified                                                                    
under Assault  IV. Representative Josephson stated  that one                                                                    
of his greatest concerns about  SB 91 related to the current                                                                    
discussion.  He  indicated  that   AS  18.66  contained  the                                                                    
definition  of  domestic  violence.   He  related  that  the                                                                    
exceptions to the 30-day cap  only related to assault IV. He                                                                    
exemplified  that if  a  husband took  a  bat and  destroyed                                                                    
property during an altercation,  he believed that the action                                                                    
was a crime  of domestic violence and was  fear inducing. He                                                                    
asked whether the scenario would  be capped by 30 days, even                                                                    
though another  person was not actually  physically injured,                                                                    
but was  a crime of  domestic violence. Mr.  Skidmore agreed                                                                    
it was a  crime of domestic violence; it would  be capped at                                                                    
a sentence of 30 days.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
12:08:30 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Meade relayed  that the  final change  made to  Class A                                                                    
misdemeanor under  BSB 91 was increasing  maximum fines from                                                                    
$10  thousand to  $25 thousand.  Co-Chair  Wilson asked  how                                                                    
many offenders paid  the fine. Ms. Meade  was uncertain. She                                                                    
remarked that  many people  did not  pay the  fine. Co-Chair                                                                    
Wilson  remarked that  an  unpaid  fine was  not  much of  a                                                                    
penalty. She  asked whether a  judge could  impose community                                                                    
service or another  condition that had an  impact. Ms. Meade                                                                    
answered that  community work service  was not  available in                                                                    
all  parts of  the state.  She offered  to research  whether                                                                    
fines could be converted to  community work service under SB
91.  Co-Chair Wilson  asked whether  data  was collected  on                                                                    
fine collection. Ms. Meade was  uncertain regarding data but                                                                    
acknowledged   that  DOA   collected  court   fines  through                                                                    
collection efforts.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
12:10:42 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative LeBon noted  that collection efforts impacted                                                                    
an offender's credit record.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter asked if failing  to pay a fine was                                                                    
a crime. Ms. Meade did not believe it was a crime.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Skidmore replied  in the  negative and  added that  not                                                                    
paying a  fine was  not a  crime but  could be  considered a                                                                    
violation  of probation.  He furthered  that if  non-payment                                                                    
was willful  and the  offender could  pay, the  person could                                                                    
potentially serve some time.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson thought  Mr.  Skidmore  described a  double                                                                    
standard. She provided  a scenario where a person  who had a                                                                    
low paying job  would have to pay the fine  whereas a person                                                                    
without a job did not have  to pay. Mr. Skidmore answered it                                                                    
was not  a double standard and  all types of factors  had to                                                                    
be taken under consideration with willful non-payment.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
12:13:41 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative LeBon observed  from personal experience that                                                                    
child  support enforcement  was  vigorously  pursued by  the                                                                    
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Carpenter  noted   that  the   constitution                                                                    
specified  that criminal  policies  were  supposed to  deter                                                                    
crime. He reasoned that imposing  a fine that never got paid                                                                    
did not  seem to meet  the intention of deterring  crime. He                                                                    
thought the statute needed revision.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Meade  referenced  Representative  Josephson's  earlier                                                                    
comment  about discretion.  She  reported that  it would  be                                                                    
rare for a  judge to impose a $10 thousand  fine for a Class                                                                    
A misdemeanor.  The judge would weigh  the circumstances and                                                                    
try not to do harm to someone with no ability to pay.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Carpenter   observed  that   according   to                                                                    
CourtView  many  people were  not  paying  their fines.  Ms.                                                                    
Meade agreed that there were many unpaid fines.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  remarked that CourtView would  not show the                                                                    
circumstance  for non-payment.  Ms.  Meade  agreed with  the                                                                    
statement.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter wondered  why multiple misdemeanors                                                                    
under  different categories  were treated  individually. Ms.                                                                    
Meade  thought he  was referencing  her statement  regarding                                                                    
"an enhancer,"  that provided a  sentence of up to  one year                                                                    
for  certain  A  misdemeanors   with  past  convictions  for                                                                    
conduct similar in  nature but if not  similar, the offender                                                                    
was   sentenced  individually.   She   recounted  that   the                                                                    
deliberation focused  on what the appropriate  jail time for                                                                    
misdemeanants  was. The  default sentence  was chosen  at 30                                                                    
days unless  it was  a second offense  for a  similar crime,                                                                    
which was accorded a tougher sentence.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
12:18:03 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  wanted to  know whether  the judge                                                                    
had  the discretion  to  protect the  public  by putting  an                                                                    
offender in  jail instead of  continuing to  cause problems.                                                                    
He   felt  that   the  unrelated   misdemeanors  should   be                                                                    
considered  in  totality.  He  reasoned  that  the  public's                                                                    
safety was  in jeopardy if  a pattern could not  be detected                                                                    
by the judge.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson asked  if  there was  a  certain number  of                                                                    
misdemeanors that made someone  a felony. Ms. Meade answered                                                                    
there were  some misdemeanors that  aggregated charges  to a                                                                    
felony.  She exemplified,  DUIs and  theft. She  noted there                                                                    
may be other instances.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Meade moved  to address  B misdemeanor  sentencing. She                                                                    
reported that  B misdemeanor offenses were  the lowest level                                                                    
of crime.  The jail time was  capped at 10 days  under SB 91                                                                    
lowered from  90 days except  for crimes related  to sending                                                                    
explicit  photographs  online  and  online  harassment.  The                                                                    
misdemeanor statute  in SB 91  had many  specific exceptions                                                                    
relating  to  theft,  certain drug  possessions,  disorderly                                                                    
conduct,  and violating  conditions of  release. She  shared                                                                    
that  the Theft  I (theft  of $250  or less)  sentences that                                                                    
eliminated jail  time caused significant public  concern and                                                                    
had been  changed under  SB 54. She  reviewed the  jail time                                                                    
for  the offense.  The Theft  I offense  was sentenced  to 5                                                                    
days for the  first offense, 10 days for the  second, and 15                                                                    
days for  the third with  the fourth offense  aggregating to                                                                    
an A misdemeanor.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
12:22:32 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Meade  referenced drug possession  in amounts  that were                                                                    
indicative  of   non-intention  to   distribute;  misconduct                                                                    
involving  controlled substances  in  the  fourth and  fifth                                                                    
degree  were treated  as misdemeanors  except  for the  date                                                                    
rape  drug. She  specified that  under SB  91 the  first two                                                                    
offenses  were   sentenced  to   suspended  jail   time  and                                                                    
probation.  In  addition,  disorderly   conduct  had  a  set                                                                    
maximum of 24 hours and  violations of conditions of release                                                                    
had a set maximum of 5 days.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Josephson asked  for  verification that  the                                                                    
administration had  determined that no active  jail time for                                                                    
misconduct involving  controlled substances  IV and V  was a                                                                    
healthcare crisis  and could not leverage  any penalty until                                                                    
the third  conviction. He asked  for verification  that "the                                                                    
administration wanted to vigorously  work on the situation."                                                                    
Mr.  Skidmore answered  that currently  drug possession  did                                                                    
not  carry any  "significant penalties."  He had  observed a                                                                    
dramatic decrease  in referrals and filings  related to drug                                                                    
crimes   had  occurred.   The  department   found  it   very                                                                    
concerning because it meant  there were numerous individuals                                                                    
not  receiving  some sort  of  intervention  that they  were                                                                    
previously receiving.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  cautioned that currently the  committee did                                                                    
not have  crime legislation to  consider and the  purpose of                                                                    
the meeting  was to understand  the current status  of crime                                                                    
legislation and its ramifications.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
12:26:52 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Josephson  asked whether  a person  was found                                                                    
to  be  "visibly  doing  heroin"  the  penalty  would  be  a                                                                    
misdemeanor  but  with  no  jail  time if  it  was  a  first                                                                    
offense.   Mr.  Skidmore   answered   in  the   affirmative.                                                                    
Representative  Josephson asked  if there  would be  no jail                                                                    
time if  charged for  the same  offense again.  Mr. Skidmore                                                                    
answered  in   the  affirmative.   Representative  Josephson                                                                    
inquired whether  it was the administration's  position that                                                                    
an  offender with  a heroin  problem may  not get  treatment                                                                    
unless  sentencing  was  toughened  to  include  jail  time,                                                                    
forcing the  person into an  option. Mr.  Skidmore responded                                                                    
in the affirmative. He expounded  that the department's view                                                                    
was  that  without  a negative  consequence  to  incentivize                                                                    
changing  the  person's behavior  it  would  not change.  He                                                                    
added  that addiction  required  incentives  to reverse  the                                                                    
behavior.  He  reported  that the  state  experienced  a  68                                                                    
percent  decrease in  drug  related  felony filings  between                                                                    
2016  and  2018,  which  amounted to  679  fewer  cases.  He                                                                    
expected  the felony  drug charges  to drop  to misdemeanors                                                                    
but  found  a  61  percent  decrease  in  drug  filings  for                                                                    
misdemeanors  as  well.  He deduced  that  "the  bottom  had                                                                    
dropped  out  of  all  drug prosecutions  in  the  state  of                                                                    
Alaska." He warned that the data was cause for concern.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilson asked  if the  individuals  were not  being                                                                    
arrested. Mr. Skidmore did not  know the answer. He believed                                                                    
the answer was no, but he  did not have arrest statistics in                                                                    
front of him. He did  not know whether the exact percentages                                                                    
applied  to arrests.  Co-Chair Wilson  surmised that  if the                                                                    
individuals were  not arrested,  they could not  be counted.                                                                    
She wondered whether DPS had the data.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
12:30:56 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KELLY  HOWELL,  SPECIAL   ASSISTANT,  DEPARTMENT  OF  PUBLIC                                                                    
SAFETY,  could  only speculate  and  offered  to provide  an                                                                    
answer in writing.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carpenter  voiced that the pretrial  tool did                                                                    
not account for  the cycle of crime related to  drug use. He                                                                    
expressed a  desire to remedy  the problem.  Co-Chair Wilson                                                                    
agreed.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilson  reiterated the discussion would  resume the                                                                    
following Monday afternoon.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
12:34:31 PM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 12:34 p.m.                                                                                         

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
Criminal Justice Review - FINAL 4-18-19.pdf HFIN 4/18/2019 9:00:00 AM
HFIN